Thursday, January 24, 2008
LEGITIMIZING THE DEATH & DESTRUCTION
Would giving Raila & Ruto. Government positions not be legitimizing the death of the many people (reported & unreported)? We need to charge them for leading one of the country''s deepest & longest massacres. Until we establish their non role in the wide spread violence i think it would be against justice to make them part of the government.
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Brings to mind the adage 'keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Kibaki will do well to bring Raila into the fold and give him a non-executive PM post where he can keep an eye on him. As for Ruto, he belongs in jail for past and present crimes.
ReplyDeleteAren't you forgetting Kibaki's sanctioned massacre of hundreds of Luo children, women and men? May be you think their lives were expendable? May you think we have forgotten? Take off your GEMA tinted glasses; your selective call for justice is as unhelpful as it is counter-productive.
ReplyDelete@Wekesa, Kibaki did not massacre any luo children and women as you tend to think. That displays your naivety of what is happening in Kenya.
ReplyDeleteIt is within the police force to kill anyone who
i. Engages in a riot
ii. In defense of property
It doesn't need a brainer to know everytime those hooligans meet they destroy life and property.
Shiro wrote:
ReplyDelete@Wekesa, Kibaki did not massacre any luo children and women as you tend to think. That displays your naivety of what is happening in Kenya.
It is within the police force to kill anyone who
i. Engages in a riot
ii. In defense of property
It doesn't need a brainer to know everytime those hooligans meet they destroy life and property.
LOL, and she talks of naivety! Alfred Mutua, what are you waiting for? Shiroh is primed and chomping at the bit!
Police and GSU go to war against civilians in Kisumu which coincidentally has the lowest number of attacks against Kikuyus but the highest number of civilian deaths and you say nothing about Michuki's government position.
ReplyDeleteA hospital is tear gassed and you say nothing. A family's home burns down and you say nothing.
All that glaring evidence yet those Government officials you say nothing about.
Other than a badly photocopied document that is doing the rounds on the net, what evidence do you have that connects Raila to the violence? Raila is a firebrand and a maverick that I agree but if you want to draw strings and connect him to the violence against Kikuyus don't be surprised when others in turn connect Kibaki to the attacks against all other non GEMA tribes and the ongoing resurgence of Mungiki.
Lets face it. The Killings in Rift valley and Chasing away of "foreigners" in Western
ReplyDeleteKenya MAY have started sporadically. But for them to continue for weeks, they are being
coordinated.
Ask your self, of the over 700 people dead, Rift valley accounts for over 500 and killed
not by police bullets but by Pangas, Of the over 600,000 people displaced, Rift valley
accounts for over 500,000.
Is it by coincidence? William Ruto and Musa Sirma are feigning innocence over this
Kenyan ethnic attacks 'planned'
ReplyDeleteOfficials from Kenya's opposition party were behind attacks on members of the president's ethnic group and are planning more, Human Rights watch says.
"We have evidence that ODM politicians and local leaders actively fomented some post-election violence," said the lobby group's acting Africa director.
The opposition has denied previous charges of "ethnic cleansing".
President Mwai Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga will meet later, United Nations officials say.
This would be the first time they have met face-to-face since last month's disputed election.
Former UN chief Kofi Annan will also take part in the talks, aimed at finding a solution to the crisis, which has left more than 650 people dead and driven 250,000 from their homes.
Opposition leaders are right to challenge Kenya's rigged presidential poll, but they can't use it as an excuse for targeting ethnic groups
Georgette Gagnon
Human Rights Watch
The BBC's Adam Mynott in Nairobi says the meeting at a neutral venue in the capital is a breakthrough, although details of the agenda have not been released.
AFP news agency reports that at least 12 people have died in the latest violence - some in the Rift Valley.
The opposition Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) says it has not yet agreed to an official investigation into their claims of electoral fraud.
ODM spokesman Salim Lone dismissed suggestions from the Ugandan presidency that a deal had been reached that could end the crisis.
He said the idea had not been ruled out but it must come as part of former Mr Annan's mediation efforts.
'Deaths'
Human Rights Watch says members of President Kibaki's Kikuyu community were targeted following the announcement of his victory.
Their researchers spoke to member of the rival Kalenjin group, who said they were mobilised by their leaders to attack and loot Kikuyu-owned shops and businesses.
Gangs have set up checkpoints, where rival groups are attacked
Local ODM officials and Kalenjin leaders "arranged frequent meetings following the election to organise, direct and facilitate the violence unleashed by gangs of local youth", HRW said.
One ODM official provided a lorry to ferry youths to attack Kikuyus, it said.
"If the leaders say stop, it will stop immediately," one Kalenjin elder said.
"Opposition leaders are right to challenge Kenya's rigged presidential poll, but they can't use it as an excuse for targeting ethnic groups," said Georgette Gagnon, the group's acting Africa director.
The statement said more attacks were being planned on the Eldoret areas of Langas and Munyaka, where many Kikuyu homes remain intact.
AFP news agency reports the death of at least 12 people overnight in several different incidents.
Eight people were killed overnight in the Rift Valley capital, Nakuru, the police told AFP.
It says two were killed in central Limuru, one man was hacked to death in a Nairobi slum and another Kenyan was killed in the western area of Molo.
Rival armed group have set up roadblocks and members of rival communities are pulled from their vehicles and attacked, especially in the volatile Rift Valley.
Wekesa, which thousands of luo children and women were killed? you take off you baluhya tinted glasses..Mudavadi will not be VP. deal with it
ReplyDeleteAcolyte,
ReplyDeletePolice and GSU go to war against civilians in Kisumu which coincidentally has the lowest number of attacks against Kikuyus but the highest number of civilian deaths and you say nothing about Michuki's government position.
Kisumu has easily the greatest amount of property damage. The number of attacks on Kikuyus is an unsound measure of the seriousness of the violence, not least because most non-Luo in Nyanza are Kisii. For what it’s worth, there are at least two other provinces with fewer incidents of anti-Kikuyu violence. Rift Valley has the highest recorded number of civilian deaths (approx 400 according to the official tally) and displacements.
A hospital is tear gassed and you say nothing. A family's home burns down and you say nothing.
Silence is silence; it is unwary to draw conclusions about another’s thoughts from what they haven’t said.
All that glaring evidence yet those Government officials you say nothing about.
Other than a badly photocopied document that is doing the rounds on the net, what evidence do you have that connects Raila to the violence? Raila is a firebrand and a maverick that I agree but if you want to draw strings and connect him to the violence against Kikuyus don't be surprised when others in turn connect Kibaki to the attacks against all other non GEMA tribes and the ongoing resurgence of Mungiki.
The available evidence conclusively justifies the claim that there was clear planning, direction, and ethnic targeting of the Rift Valley violence from inside the ODM campaign organisation. The time when reasonable Kenyans could close their eyes to these facts is over. The remaining live issue is how far up responsibility goes.
Raila’s (and others’) utterances on the campaign trail are well-known. Kibaki – who may be a raging tribalist for all I know – said nothing anywhere near as hateful. It’s not difficult to see why Raila ought to be a person of interest for any investigation into what happened.
@anon 1, i am deleting your comment because it is one thing to disagree with me, and another to insult me
ReplyDeleteAnd so is yours Mwana Mombasa, its hateful
@Aco, daniel has answered you. And the rest happen to be condition subsequent.
@anon , with time it will be proved it was not a coincidence
@daniel, i could not have said it better
@anon, luhya tainted eyes is tribal .,everyone has their right to an opinion regardless of their tribe
Personally I think we as a citizenry should take this opportunity to take as much control as we can of the political affairs of the nation because after this eruption in violence, those in power are only bound to resort to harsher and more violent and more aggressive tactics over the coming years to maintain their power, regardless of whose in power. At least that's my speculation at this point.
ReplyDeleteReports from Nakuru are that individuals in police uniforms are killing non Kikuyus there, what is your opinion on that?
ReplyDelete@ Daniel
You have not answered my question about the high number of police shootings in Kisumu at all.
Yes Rift Valley may have the highest civilian casualties but those were mostly civilians killing civilians. Kisumu on the other hand has the highest number of civilians being shot by police. So if that isn't tribal, I guess property means more than lives.
I'm sure you do know that silence about something is an endorsement, after all when those around us do wrong and we say nothing are we not condoning their actions?
Since you talk about evidence, I'm not going to say that Raila and co are angels but do provide us transcripts of the rallies where they advocate killing of other tribes and you have a convert. Remember just because someone says so doesn't mean that is the case. Given the resurgence of Mungiki I do think that Michuki and Kibaki's inner circle should also be questioned as persons of interest.
If the past is a predictor of the future Kibaki has no plans to end the violence.
ReplyDeleteI watch kikuyus recounting their horror stories on videos on the net,I see in them a reflection of myself, my family and my community. It has nothing to do with fighting PNU propaganda.
The biggest problem in Kenya right now is not even the fact that Kibaki stole the elections. It is the fact that nobody else is perceiving Kikuyus to be interested in finding an honest workable solution. Instead they are cheering Kibaki on for the blatant rape of democracy. I am not justifying violence. I am explaining to you the mindset of it.
my believe is all the kikuyu leadership and masses is , all you need to do is show kenyans that we are together wether or not Kibaki rigged elections the rest will come very easy.
as long aas we have the likes of you shiro and other middleclass and well todo saperes justifying rigging... then i tell you its going to be long road back to normacly that kibaki thought he could get by STEALING THE ELECTIONS in a rather juvenile manner....
@ Kip
ReplyDeleteYour comment is soooooooooooooo getting deleted!
at anonymous.. i dont mind my post getting deleted.. i think and shiro is not an autocrat like michuki and company... the only way we can get a solution to our country's situation is having an honest dialogue with ourselves.....
ReplyDeletewe simply need to face this things with some element of realisim i dont think much is achieved by deleting comments...
@Aco, it is not about non kikuyus or kikuyus getting killed its about spreading ethnic hatred.It starts with innocent words. I don't why part of you seems to be justifying the death of the several people by quoting policemen killing innocent people. Do you know its the same people who had killed the kikuyus in Rift who were fuataing them in Nakuru to drive them out?? And unfortunately met with the Mungiki and clashed.
ReplyDelete@Kip, we are not going to destroy our towns and cities to prove that we are against rigging , ok?
@anon, as long as you don't insult me, your comment stays. Kip though went overboard by saying i justify riggin. All i know is that its only one party was caught, every party rigged massively in this election. Even the mps would not want another elections because they know what they did.
You know very well PNU agents were not allowed in nyanza, You know very well kikuyus were not allowed to vote there and were chucked out of the line. Why do you seem to tell everyone that only PNU rigged if they did that is? The violence in Burnt Forest started three days to elections.
You will know by now , Annan has said there is more to this violence than elections.
why did the police force shoot luos in kisumu that were protesting against rigging but in naivasha where there are gangs killing each other why are they not shooting anyone? Is property more important than human lives?
ReplyDeleteAnd will you now call for Kibaki to be investigated for human rights violations now that kikuyu gangs are killing luos?
lol shiro i dont think you got the gist of what iwas saying.. read it again ...no one said you burn your buildings.. lol but again i read or see the underlying complexes behind your answer.. ati it does not mean burning buildings....
ReplyDeleteI think you need to really sit down and look at everything with out a tint of biase and you will see kenya for what exactly it is.....
@kg, I am also in your wonder. all those groupings should be shot on sight. If he can be linked,very well, go ahead and execute him
ReplyDelete