It is inalienable.
It is not to be taken away at the whims of a few.
It is not a carrot to be dangled to achieve political interests.
Peace does not come in colours; orange or blue
It is not right that a few people who of their own no fault should continue to suffer for said "justice with peace"
It is not their problem that we have no independent judiciary or an impartial ECK
These are kenyans working and living in their own country
Why then do they have to exchange their freedoms, their rights & liberties
What are they going to get in return
And do they want what is offered
Is that their choice?
Give them a chance to talk
I've tried to understand what informs your position on the current crisis but then I must admit I'm defeated. Given you've had some interesting arguments but sometime I'm moved to wonder if you are not going round and round propagating the same prejudices while harping on how those with opposing views are hostage to these prejudices.
ReplyDeleteYou are openly bias to the PNU agenda now that is not in doubt. What is, is whether, to starkly put it, your foot and your mouth are in the same position by default or by design.
I doubt these 'people' looking for peace are 'few', if they were we would not be staring inflation and a possible recession in the face. Worse still we wouldn't be having at least 300k refugees. Darfur got to that figure in more than 6months, we did that figure in under 2weeks.
Absence of war or the presence of calm is not equitable to peace. The only sure path is to have justice then peace. Whoever propagates any agenda, shall bring calm alright but the next phase shall surely be a catastrophe. It might be sad we might not even have refugees next time, more like crematoria all over the place. It's your blog you spread the right message... that suits your agenda
@OLEIO, PNU agenda, WHICH IS? Or rather do they have one? Email me a copy ASAP. I am all about peace Oleio. I wish you too. You know i highly respect you ever since you said you are a moran.
ReplyDeleteWorse still we wouldn't be having at least 300k refugees. Darfur got to that figure in more than 6months, we did that figure in under 2weeks.
ReplyDeleteWhose refugees? why refugees? Who makes them refugees? Your rose coloured glasses can't be all that rosy!!!
Did they choose to be refugees? These people were in their homes not in war camps. Reason?? Answer me Oleio
OLOEIO,
ReplyDeleteare you one of those people chanting no Raila no peace? are you saying that it is justified that people suffer becouse no JUSTICE has been served.. I dont get where people like you are coming from!! on one hand you saying the suffering is deplorable on the other, you excuse the perpetrators..Justice the peace is a notion propagated by politicians who believe justice is having their way and therfore are ready to plunder the country into deep agony to fulfill their aspirations..OPEN YOUR EYES friend..at this point I do wish Kibaki would resign BUT not for Raila to tkae over..I wish ODM/PNU can both quit politics and I propose PLO for president.
@Meadow - No one chooses to be a refugee but there is a choice we can make. We can choose to be 'peaceful' and 'move on' like it is the wish that is largely pro-PNU. It's the agenda I speak of.
ReplyDeleteThe agenda that sweeps everything under the carpet as we embrace 'peace'. Peace is a wonderful thing who doesn't need peace. Even I brought up in the art of rudimentary bush war, my schooling not withstanding, needs peace.
How we achieve it is my worry. We can bring a battalion to stem and crush the 'warriors' alright, we can issue a blanket shoot to kill order and maintain the status quo, fine.
What we can not do is force people to be neighbours. Metal might is not going to return these people back home. Sample the fact that all 'refugees' in central Kenya are crying to evacuated 'home', taken back to Nyanza/Western/RV. Very few are asking to be taken back to central province. My point?
If we get peace by any other means that makes the aggrieved (rightly/wrongly) feel coerced into calm, then this crisis is going to be a full blown catastrophe next time. All those people forced to accept neighbours will explode with a vengeance. we never know when but one thing is for sure you can't maintain military presence in villages in 'peaceful' times. The weight will give and the next attack wont produce refugees.
I'm not happy about it but the reality of war demands that I have no choices either. The denial of the crisis actively propagates war, the sentiments of people fund-raising for war-like activities only exacerbates the fragile situation. Some people have nothing to lose from this war my dear, they don't feel a sense of belonging to this state (Kenya) as constituted or run.
@Anon - Your points are noted but you do realize our present status would have been avoided completely if ECK would have done the right thing. If you don't want justice served to get peace then I'm afraid I can't borrow your prism, my eyesight is already suffering from too much darkness lately.
Excellent rejoinder Oleio. GiM, it's hard to see your own back without a mirror (i.e. your prejudices). Real peace does not exist in vacuum. It's hard to see how the 'refugees' can return to their homes without some sort of goodwill from their 'evictors'. That goodwill is unlikely to be forthcoming in the absence of a satisfactory solution to the electoral theft committed by Mr. Kibaki.
ReplyDeleteYou can evangelize the virtues of peace till you are orange in the face (lol), we will still be no further forward when you open your eyes. It is really quite simple; peace without justice is fool's peace.
@mwikali, Oleio, could you for a moment step into the shoes of those suffering without any political prejudices on your part for no particular reason.
ReplyDeleteWhat's this justice you people keep talking about? When all the time the concerned do not want to pursue it? We shall not have refugees in our own country that i can promise you. A few people cannot hold the country at hostage. It is the right of each and everyone to be free to live and make a living in Kenya anywhere.
@Meadow - I'm afraid you are getting blinded by too much passion for peace for it's own sake. As Mwikali (asante sana) says, the 'refugees' need some sense of acceptance from the 'evictors'. Without this the 'evictors' would feel coerced into accepting 'peace'. It would be just the calm before the storm.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to confuse our submission for justice for agitation. No! dear it's the closest you come to the cooling of nerves properly. This fixiation with labeling those who seek justice and peace as few and irrelevant is the denial syndrome I speak of. The worst bit of it is as you say every Kenyan is free to leave and work everywhere within our borders, granted. It only reminds me of PNU functionaries whenever they comment on the crisis, the right to live and work, but just how true is this in itself.
The truth is these people have always enjoyed this right, so what's different this time round? Let me dispose of two myths: 1. That this crisis was premeditated by the opposition. It wasn't. Displaced people have reported their neighbours burning or slashing them. That doesn't happen amongst neighbours in the scale it has unless by private militia imported to the area like Mungiki. The scale of the damage and its random nature do not qualify an organized event, if anything if the government knew of this plot why didn't she stem it or why doesn't she just move in and arrest the plotters. 2. That once we attain 'peace' as propagated, things will return to normal, displaced may go back home and life will be super. Sorry but it wont. These fellas who evicted their long standing neighbours must surely feel aggrieved over something. When we solve that something, find it's root cause, whether stolen elections, land or national wealth distribution or retaliation for earlier evictions, they are aggrieved. That must be sorted, This achieves JUSTICE and in the end if it's achieved well peace shall prevail. You can't invert the cone however hard we try.
@Meadow I know you are entitled to your opinion on this - we all are. But I come from a potential trouble spot and this is the truth - Justice then peace is the only way the centre will hold here. I wish you peace as you contemplate justice.
the truth of the matter is….there are various components that make up PEACE…….of all those components,two are paramount,—-TRUTH and JUSTICE……a society that embraces and respect TRUTH……will definately live in PEACE…… society that embraces JUSTICE…..will definately live in PEACE……some of our church”leaders” have turned out to be a liability to this great nation….they are just telling kenyans to live in peace without calling for the real crisis to be resolved…..they are the real hypocrites…
ReplyDeleteKip, Mwikali, Oleio,Shiro,
ReplyDeleteI dont think anyone is denying that historic land issues need to be resolved ASAP. And its pointless telling people to return home and then continue with the status quo-land grievances will have to be addressed, HOWEVER, are people to remain in refuge camps while that is done or are they to return home while the issues are resolved..its going to take months to address. By the way as grievances are addressed some people like one Henry Kosgey will have to give up land that he stole from some poor farmer- Watched this in a documentary last year how he cheated some poor souls out of their land..I wish for land reforms becouse if they are carried out honestly, you will see the same politicians quivering in their shoes, while they realise the impact of it. I dont support any politician at all becoz I realise at the end of the day they use people to their own gain..THEREFORE, they have forced unto Kenya something great- LAND REFORMS, which previous goverments could not be bothered to tackle but once they realise how it affects them, WATCH THIS SPACE. THEY WILL CRY FOUL.
In short, JUSTICE should be done BUT peace must prevail..As for the election stealing, independent reports have said over and over again, they cant tell who won the election therefore I, like all Kenyans want the truth.I hope one of the outcomes of the truth and reconcliation is that once and for all we know the truth. We are ready to bash each other and we dont even know the truth except what the politicians say.
@anon, thank you. You have said all i would ever want to say.
ReplyDeleteHe he he! @Meadow, I'm sure that what @anon has said is not "all you ever wanted to say" but well everyone needs some syco to up their little egos. Let me not deny you simple pleasures dear.
ReplyDeleteDon't you find it odd that Kosgey a relatively smaller fish gets mentioned when people who own land the size of countries (lesotho, swazi, rwanda, burundi etc) and they didn't even cheat or connive - wait a minute did someone say by decree or was it robbery, coz even grabbers have some finesse, well Kenyatta, karume kibaki comes to mind...
But let's not lose sight it all started with elections and thats where we must all go back to trace our steps. I pen off to other things
The only thing that I would add is that peace is also something that we must strive to maintain everyday to ensure that forces that may want to use chaos and violence for their own ends do not prevail.
ReplyDeleteshiro .I recommend you liberate you from yourself The issue before us not easy as it looks.
ReplyDeleteI guess all of us are looking at the situation with our coloured glasses. Coloured by our perception of the other people or by our perceived injustice carried against us depending on our social or ethnical backgrounds. We are all waiting for external events or the other person to act in a certain way in order to release us from our anguish and anger. !! and just to QUOTE YOU ...
"..A few people cannot hold the country at hostage"""" END qoute
could you list those people becuase as far as everyone knowa is that,the following are holding the country randsom
- mwai kibaki
martha karua
michuki kimendero .
-The PNU fratenity..
All Raila and ODM asked was JUSTICE... and JUSTICE delayed is justice denied.
oleio,
ReplyDeleteI take your point of other big fishes who own land but I mention Kosgey becouse the land is in the disputed Rift valley-havent heard anyone disputing central..Now does any of the people you mention own land in the Rift??-enlighten me if am wrong.. none the less, land reforms to be fair should encompass all of Kenya and even those big fishes should share the wealth. I think its time to move on from timewasting, bloodspillin, blame game that politics is and look towards wholesome reforms so we are never return where we are now again